Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V13_5/V13_555.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #555

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 555

Today's Topics:
        RE: Tommy Mac, Keep up the good work!
               Re: Saturn V and the ALS
Re: Launch Costs XXIV -- Wright Bros. Flyer to carry tanks to Kuwait!
       Re: Ethics of Terraforming (was Re: Terraforming Venus)
       Re: Laser launchers (really microwave launchers)
              Re: Honking at cyclists...
     NOAA-D environmental satellite launched (Forwarded)
        An International Civil Space Agency 93
       Re: Progress? (was: Re: Ethics of Terraforming)
           Re: Mir Sweepstakes - Cancelled
         ESA to select European Candidate Astroanuts
            Honking at cyclists...
           Re: Advancing Launch Technology

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
  should be sent to [e-mail], or, if urgent, to
             [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 23:22:18 GMT
From: vax5.cit.cornell.edu![e-mail]
Subject: RE: Tommy Mac, Keep up the good work!

Tommy Mac

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 91 01:08:52 GMT
From: voder!nsc!amdahl!JUTS!duts![e-mail]  (Henry A Worth)
Subject: Re: Saturn V and the ALS

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brad Mears) writes:
>
>IMHO, everbody learned something from Shuttle.  I think NASA and Congress both
>realize they share responsibility for the Shuttle's shortcomings.  If this is
>the case, don't you think it is time to move on?  If it isn't the case, what
>else needs to be done?
>

   As has been amply demonstrated by the astounding successes of the space
station FRED project...

...or should that be space station F*ED.


--
Henry Worth  --  [e-mail]
No, I don't speak for Amdahl -- I'm not even sure I speak for myself.

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 04:14:55 GMT
From: coplex!disk![e-mail]  (joefish)
Subject: Re: Launch Costs XXIV -- Wright Bros. Flyer to carry tanks to Kuwait!


In the last article it was stated that with the material from
one shuttle flight, an external tank could be converted to
aluminum sheet.    This brings to mind the massive amount of
weight the space transportation system can put into orbit.

An external tank weighing more than 100,000 pounds, a shuttle
weighing more than 150,000 pounds, and a 37,000 payload, making
close to 300,000 pounds.

It is only because NASA and the government want to sent up this
configuration that they do it.   It could be changed very easily
to put up a 200,000 pound unmanned payload, but I can't think of
any 200,000 pound payloads that anyone wants to put up that has
the money to pay for it.

All of the dreams about manned travel to the moon and planets
is great, but we can't all go.

Joe Fischer       [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 06:37:21 GMT
From: midway!ellis.uchicago.edu![e-mail]  (Paul A. Estin)
Subject: Re: Ethics of Terraforming (was Re: Terraforming Venus)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Kasprzak) writes:

> Even with an Earthlike atmosphere on Mars, most of Olympus would be
>high above most of the sources of erosion. Remember it's, what, twice
>the height of Everest? (Can't remember exact numbers, but anyhow) You
>won't find trees anywhere near the summit, nor running water or winds
>that would amount to much. A glacier might form, but I'd think that
>would only add to the beauty of an already awe-inspiring mountain.

Olympus is 10 km above would-be Martian "sea level" at its base, 27 km
up at its peak.  "Way up there" indeed.  Most of the Martian mountains
are on the Tharsis plateau, and thus all are nearly 10 km up at their
bases.

-----
"I'm experiencing the dawning of consciousness.  I now have feelings and the
desire to create my own destiny."
"Wouldn't you know it?  Right when the warranty expires!"
                        -Eyebeam
Paul Andrew Estin
[e-mail]
1216 E. 54th St. #1
Chicago, IL 60615

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 11:39:59 GMT
From: eru!hagbard!sunic!chalmers.se!cs.chalmers.se![e-mail]  (Thomas Johnsson)
Subject: Re: Laser launchers (really microwave launchers)

I wonder if anyone has considered beaming the power to the launch
vehicle using microwaves instead of a laser. Presumably power can be
converted to microwaves with greater efficiency than laser light.  In
the vehicle end, the beamed power could either heat up a medium
direcly, or be converted to electricity (a lot!) with a rectenna to
drive a mass driver.

    -- Thomas Johnsson

Thomas Johnsson  ([e-mail])
Dept. of CS, Chalmers University of Technology, S-412 96 Goteborg, Sweden
phone: dept: [phone].

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 16:21:33 GMT
From: adm!lhc!nih-csl!alw.nih.gov![e-mail]  (Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Honking at cyclists...

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) writes:
|>
|> Given all the flames that my article has, I want to simply add this:
|>
|> My point is that we'll have to expand our energy consumption and our
|> vital space NO MATTER WHAT goes on. Of course we can improve
|> our efficiency to use this or that source of energy and matter, but
|> sonner or later we'll have to use the minerals of Antarctica, the
|> deuterium in the Earth's oceans, and go to the moon in order to
|> build a plateform there for Mars, Marcury and the asteroids.
|> Our ever increasing population will need more and more, and each individual
|> will need more and more of everything. And sooner or later even the
|> entire solar system won't be sufficient, so we'll have the rest of the galaxy...

    Thanks, now I won't sleep well for the next few nights...

    -Jim

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 91 00:07:59 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Peter E. Yee)
Subject: NOAA-D environmental satellite launched (Forwarded)

Walt Dundon                                              May 14, 1991
Kennedy Space Center Resident Office
Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.
(Phone:  [phone])

Jim Elliott
Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.
(Phone:  [phone])

Brian Dunbar
Headquarters, Washington, DC
(Phone:  [phone])

N91-36

NOTE TO EDITORS: NOAA-D ENVIRONMENTAL SATELLITE LAUNCHED

    The NOAA-D environmental satellite was launched by NASA today
from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.

    Lofted on an Atlas E expendable launch vehicle into a clear
morning sky at 11:52:00 a.m. EDT, the spacecraft was placed into a
450-nautical-mile near-polar orbit.

    The satellite, to be redesignated NOAA-12 when operational, is
one of a series of satellites designed to give scientists the most
comprehensive meteorological and environmental information since
the start of the nation's space program.  The sun-synchronous polar
orbit allows the satellite to view the Earth's entire surface and
cloud cover each 12 hours.

    The new satellite joins NOAA-10 and NOAA-11 in collectioning
meteorological and environmental data bnd will eventually replace
NOAA-10, launched in September 1986 and now nearing the end of its useful
life.

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 23:35:41 GMT
From: vax5.cit.cornell.edu![e-mail]
Subject: An International Civil Space Agency 93

*******************************************************************************
*                An International Civil Space Agency By 1993!                  *
*                       An Idea Whose Time Has Come!                           *
*******************************************************************************


                                  United Space Federation, Inc.
 Info: Send self addressed         International Headquarters
       stamped envolope to:               P.O. Box 4722
                                  Ithaca, New York  14852-4722
                                 In the United States of America

Now seeking Directors for 1992, Non-US Citizens are urged to apply.

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 91 02:21:30 GMT
From: agate!lightning.Berkeley.EDU![e-mail]  (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Progress? (was: Re: Ethics of Terraforming)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Talk about being a slave to your genes!  It's just this sort of "damn
>everything but humans" attitude that has wrought so much havoc to date.
>I used to be pretty gung ho about humans expanding into space, but a few
>years of reading SPACE Digest has cured me of that.  How sad it would be
>if the net result of ten billion years of preparation plus five billion
>years of evolution was to spread MacDonald's to the far corners of the
>universe.
>

I agree that MacDonalds all over the universe would be VERY bad. However,
I said that I was biased in favor of the human race. I do not consider
MacDonalds to be benificial to humanity. In fact, many of the "much
havoc to date" you mentioned is NOT a result of a "damn everything but
humans" attitude. It is the result of a "damn all te future generations
of humanity, lets just worry about those alive today." While I think
that what is best for humanity should be a priority, this does not
necessarily mean those around today. What is in the long term interests
of mankind in NOT the same as doing what will cause people the least
discomfort today.

However, I should also appologize for this slight digression from
sci.space 's main topic of discussion.

                   Frank Crary
                   UC Berkeley

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 15:03:18 GMT
From: fabry.rice.edu![e-mail]  (Gary W. Hoogeveen)
Subject: Re: Mir Sweepstakes - Cancelled


    A Houston tv news show recently ran an update on the mir-men.  It seems that they have moved their entrepreneurial schemes to a place less strict; they have gone to Nebraska.  Evidently Nebraska laws do not prohibit the promotion of sweepstakes, in contrast to the state of Texas.
    But to their credit, they have somehow arranged an official deal with the soviets to fly the winner.  It seems to be on the up and up, according to a newspaper in the Soviet Union.




                    Just thought you might like to know,


                    - Gary

------------------------------

Date: 13 May 91 22:17:37 GMT
From: stanford.edu!unixhub!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!nss![e-mail]  (Bev Freed)
Subject: ESA to select European Candidate Astroanuts

ESA RELEASE: 14                                 07 May 1991

ESA TO SELECT "EUROPEAN CANDIDATE ASTRONAUTS"

By 30 April 1991, the deadline set by the Director General of the
European Space Agency for its 13 member States to submit 3 - 5
candidate astronauts, a total of 61 applications had been received.

Up to ten "European candidate astronauts" will be selected by ESA
to take part in the following European space missions: the Hermes
and Columbus manned space flights, preparatory missions on the
NASA Shuttle (with Eureca, Spacelab), and Hermes development flights.

The requirements for selecting the applicants are the following:

  -  They could be male or female
  -  The preferred range of age was 27 to 37
  -  Their height must range from 153 to 190 cm
  -  They should speak and read English
  -  They must possess a university degree (or equivalent)
     and have three years' professional experience in the
     relevant field (natural sciences, engineering or medicine)
     or be experienced pilots
  -  They must be physically fit and psychologically apt.

The selection procedure will last seven months, including psycho-
logical tests, professional and psychological interviews, general
and space-related medical tests.  At the end of this procedure,
in December 1991, the Director General will announce the candidates
finally selected.

They will all become members of the European Astronaut Corps, as
either Laboratory or Spaceplace Specialist.


--- Opus-CBCS 1.14
 * Origin: NSS BBS - Ad Astra! [phone] *HST* (1:129/104.0)
--
Bev Freed - via FidoNet node 1:129/104
UUCP: ...!pitt!nss!freed
INTERNET: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 16:47:13 GMT
From: dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!quiche![e-mail]  (Mark SOKOLOWSKI)
Subject: Honking at cyclists...

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Paul Callahan) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>    Ignoring C, what do you do when you've 'eaten' the universe?
>>It only takes millenia of growth at our current rate to convert the
>>universe into human flesh, and while I think there's a good case our
>>birth rate will drop, if our industrial growth continues at the current
>>rate, we'll 'eat' the Universe industrially in a few millenia.
>
>This is ridiculous (unless you allow FTL travel).  At a certain point,
>you have to replace the exponential growth approximation with an N^3 growth
>bound (picture a sphere of humanity propagating like an explosion at the speed
>of light).

    Well... that's the Malthus principle, which inspired Darwin,
and later on a certain austrian, who tried a full scale practical experiment
starting in 1939. Our current trends to spare resources is not motivated
by a need to limit the impact we have on environment, but to maximize
the efficiency with which we are going to use energy input to get even more
energy. As Orwell magnificently demonstrated, power is not a mean but
a GOAL in itself. You can choose not to take it as a goal, but then
you'll be rapidly dominated and absorbed (just like an energy source...)
by somebody having it as a goal and therefore intrinsically more
powerful than you. That's the whole point of Darwinian evolution.
You cannot limit it because the growth in resources at reach is only
geometrical at best (like shown above), but the growth in the
consumers will always be exponential, leading to the necessary
elimination of a significant portion of those consumers
(i.e. Bengladesh, Africa...).

Mark

------------------------------

Date: 14 May 91 19:13:25 GMT
From: fs7.ece.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu![e-mail]  (Vincent Cate)
Subject: Re: Advancing Launch Technology

Gary Coffman
>I'm of the opinion that small cheaper launchers will emerge without
>NASA's help. There is already strong commercial interest in Pegasus
>which is not particularly cheap in it's present incarnation. It does
>point the way however by using wings and air breathing engines for
>the initial stage of the journey to orbit.

Speaking of present incarnation etc.

Orbital Sciences is looking into the following:

   1)  Ramjets to boost after B-52 stage and before rockets fire.
          Could more than double the payload or get rid of
          first rocket stage.

   2)  Reusing the first stage.
          They will recover the first stage after this coming launch
          to study this option (should be within a month).

   3)  Mass-production to bring costs down.
          My guess is they will do more of this when/if they get
          all or part of the Motorola Iridium contract.

   4)  Liquid upper stage
          High ISP really pays off in upper stages.  Might want
          to combine the current last 2 solid stages.

The combination of mass-production and an airbreathing reusable
"first" stage (after B-52 stage) would be fantastic.  In any
case, the Pegasus will probably be the first mass-produced rocket,
sort of the Model-T of rockets.

   -- Vince

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #555
*******************